Henry Mintzberg: Who Ever Measured Management? | Bust Those Management Myths

“Nobody ever measured management properly.” Henry Mintzberg

Henry Mintzberg has spent a lifetime taking management myths out of sight for the sake of insight. The McGill professor and Thinkers50 Lifetime Achievement Award recipient joins Aidan McCullen to discuss his new book, Bust Those Management Myths, and explains why the effective strategies are learned as much as they are planned.

In this conversation, Henry Mintzberg reveals:
• Why the flat earth theory works perfectly well for building runways in Holland
• How the Egg McMuffin splits a class of managers down the middle on what strategy is
• The bees and flies in a bottle, and why too many bees are making strategy
• What Wayne Gretzky meant when he said he skates to where the puck is going to be
• Why top and middle management are dangerous metaphors
• Chains, hubs, webs and sets, explained through a wedding
• Why MBA programmes graduate technocrats who measure like mad
• The single disconnect behind eight of the book’s myths

Chapters
00:00 Strategy Position vs Perspective
01:49 Meet Henry Mintzberg
03:33 Myth Our Theory Is True
05:37 Updating Theories Over Time
07:20 Measurement Madness Myth
09:16 Strategy as Position and Perspective
11:15 Myth Strategies Are Planned
15:34 Intuition Experience and Bees
20:29 Myth Beyond Hierarchy
23:10 Chains Hubs Webs Sets
27:49 Management Art Craft Science
30:26 Targets Disconnect and Context
32:54 Left Brain Right Brain

Resources
Bust Those Management Myths (Berrett-Koehler): https://bkconnection.com/products/9798890571724_bust-those-management-myths
MythSite, the book’s companion site: https://mythsite.org
Planning on the Left Side and Managing on the Right (HBR, 1976): https://hbr.org/1976/07/planning-on-the-left-side-and-managing-on-the-right
Rebalancing Society: https://rebalancingsociety.org
Henry’s website and blog: https://mintzberg.org

About Henry Mintzberg
Henry Mintzberg holds the Cleghorn Chair of Management Studies at McGill University in Montreal and is a recipient of the Thinkers50 Lifetime Achievement Award. Bust Those Management Myths is his twenty-second book. Others include The Rise and Fall of Strategic Planning, Managers Not MBAs, Simply Managing and Rebalancing Society.

About the Host
Aidan McCullen is the 2025 Thinkers50 Innovation Award recipient, keynote speaker on AI, disruption, innovation and change, host of The Innovation Show, and author of Undisruptable: A Mindset of Permanent Reinvention (Wiley). Learn more at https://theinnovationshow.io/about-aidan-mccullen

About The Innovation Show
The Thinkers50-recognised podcast where square pegs find their place in a world of round holes. This series is brought to you by Kyndryl, who run and reimagine the technology systems that drive advantage for the world’s leading businesses. Learn more at https://www.kyndryl.com

Subscribe to the Thursday Thought: https://thethursdaythought.substack.com
Website: https://theinnovationshow.io
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-innovation-show/id1148455669
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/63nFKf4bsSWo3W72gWtOsK?si=b62d9614237c4450
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/theinnovationshow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aidanmccullen

David Rogers explains the AI value gap on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

AI Value Gap | Why AI Investments Fail to Pay Off | David Rogers

Companies are pouring money into AI and the CFO still cannot see the return. David Rogers explains why the AI value gap is a strategy problem, shares the AI value equation and walks through four steps that tie AI to the income statement.

Alexander Osterwalder explains six patterns of value creation and the Value Stack on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

EP 670 Alexander Osterwalder on the Value Stack: 6 Patterns of Value Creation

Alexander Osterwalder shares six patterns of value creation and the Value Stack, a new Strategyzer tool for sharpening your value proposition. Nintendo won with an inferior console. Ford made cars for his factory workers. Diners Club invented the credit card. Hear how each pattern works and how to apply it.

Alex Osterwalder explains AI value proposition design on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

EP 669 Alex Osterwalder: How to Use AI to Augment Value Proposition Design (Without Creating AI Slop)

AI writes brilliant sales decks once you feed it the right ingredients. Alex Osterwalder explains the four artifacts teams must build first, how the new Value Stack ranks benefits using Gmail as the example, and why marketers are becoming overseers of AI agents.

Robert Burgelman explains autonomous strategic behaviour at Intel on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

How to Get Leadership to Back Your Idea Robert Burgelman on Intel

Intel’s microprocessor began as a side project nobody at the top asked for. A later RISC chip was shut down. Stanford’s Robert Burgelman explains autonomous strategic behaviour, why leaders back projects that teach the company something new, and how internal entrepreneurs can carry the burden of proof.

David Bland, author of Testing Business Ideas, on assumptions mapping and the DuPont case study, The Innovation Show episode 667

EP 667: David Bland on DuPont, Qnity and the Power of Assumptions Mapping

David Bland, lead author of Testing Business Ideas, shares how assumptions mapping helped DuPont and Qnity build an award-winning experimentation culture. Across 35 real opportunities, DuPont saved over $12M by stopping weak projects early and earned about $24M from the ideas that passed.

Shuo Chen explains fractional founders and how great startups begin on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

Ep 666: Shuo Chen — Fractional Founders, Frontier Firms and Why Enterprise Data Is AI's Gold

Eight of the ten American trillion-dollar companies started as side projects, according to Shuo Chen’s research. The IOVC general partner and Stanford and Berkeley lecturer explains fractional founders, why the organism rejects the organ, how frontier firms use AI, and why Google bid for Spirit Airlines’ data.

Paul Nunes discussing combinatorial innovation and Motorola's comeback on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen

Paul Nunes — Motorola, Combinatorial Innovation and the Treasure in the Trash

Combinatorial innovation means most new products are recombinations of parts that already exist. Paul Nunes, co-author of Jumping the S-Curve, explains how that logic explains Motorola’s collapse and comeback, why suppliers matter more than your R&D department, and why price deflation may be the hardest strategy problem of the next decade.

Dov Baron, author of The Art of Belonging, on The Innovation Show episode 664 with Aidan McCullen, discussing identity addiction and cultures of belonging

Dov Baron — The Art of Belonging and Identity Addiction

Identity addiction is why most behavioural change fails, says Dov Baron, author of The Art of Belonging. In Vancouver, he tells Aidan McCullen about the 1990 climbing fall in which he died five times, the moment a dead cat forced him to choose a new life, and why organisations that want innovation must build community, psychological safety and healthy conflict.

Alex Osterwalder explains the business model portfolio and explore vs exploit governance on The Innovation Show with Aidan McCullen.

Ep 663: Alex Osterwalder — Why the Core Business Kills Innovation (Explore vs Exploit, Part 3)

The core business kills everything that looks different. In Part 3 of the Strategyzer series, Alex Osterwalder shows how a business model portfolio and the right governance let leaders explore and exploit at the same time — from SonoSite’s incentives trap to Logitech’s trees, plants and seeds.

Positive SSL