Mastering Chaos: Navigating the BANI Future with Bob Johansen & Jamais Cascio

 

🎙️ Episode Title: Mastering Chaos: Navigating the BANI Future

👥 Guests: Bob Johansen & Jamais Cascio

💡 Sponsored by: Kyndryl | Reimagining the tech systems powering global enterprise innovation.

In this episode, Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio return to explore their book Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sensemaking Guide to a BANI World. 

They dive into the evolution from VUCA (Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, Ambiguous) to BANI (Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible) and its impact on leadership, strategy, and personal resilience.

🔍 Topics Include:

The origins and future of VUCA and BANI

VUCA+ and BANI+ frameworks

Real-world examples: LEGO, Netflix, Special Olympics, Airbnb

Leadership agility & “Flexive Command” 

Future-back thinking and anticipatory history

AI, ethics, empathy & strategic foresight

Purpose, interconnectedness & sensemaking

This episode is essential for leaders, innovators, and future-thinkers navigating today’s complex and chaotic world.

00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message

00:24 Opening Quote and Guest Introduction

00:59 Understanding VUCA and VUCA Plus

04:36 Exploring BANI and BANI Plus

06:37 Future Back Thinking and Historical Patterns

09:33 The Concept of Flexive Command

11:01 Resilience and Bendability in Organizations

25:59 Empathy and Anxiety in Leadership

39:52 Debating AI and Guardrails

40:47 Ethics and Metaphors in AI

41:57 Kate Darling’s Perspective on AI

43:31 The Language of AI

43:59 Robotics and Empathy

45:51 Mindfulness and Anxiety

47:18 Nonlinearity in BANI

48:04 Neuro Flexibility and Improv

50:40 Orthogonal Thinking and T-shaped People

53:17 Distant Early Warnings

59:50 Gaming and Nonlinear Thinking

01:09:30 Incomprehensibility and Interconnectedness

01:16:45 Faith and Purpose in a BANI World

01:20:45 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

 

🔗 Useful links:

• Navigating the Age of Chaos – ageofbani.com

• Bob Johansen – IFTF.org

• Jamais Cascio – openthefuture.com

• Kyndryl Institute – kyndryl.com/institute

• Aidan McCullen – aidanmccullen.com

 

#TheInnovationShow #BANI #VUCA #Leadership #FutureThinking #Chaos #Resilience #Innovation #Kyndryl #Thinkers50

On this episode of The Innovation Show, we welcome Chuck House, serial intrapreneur, author of Permission Denied, and former executive at Hewlett-Packard.

Chuck shares hard-won lessons from inside one of the world’s most influential tech companies—revealing what it really takes to innovate from within. From helping pioneer the first commercial computer graphics display to earning HP’s only-ever Medal of Defiance, Chuck’s story is both a cautionary tale and a masterclass in intrapreneurial resilience.

Hosted by Aidan McCullen, Thinkers50 Award recipient for Innovation and keynote speaker based in Ireland.

🎧 Highlights include:

• Surviving and thriving as an intrapreneur

• Navigating organisational resistance

• Why engineers must meet customers

• Leadership in uncertain times

• Insights for today’s innovation leaders

 

📖 Get Chuck’s book: Permission Denied: Odyssey of an Intrapreneur:

https://amzn.to/3Xq2LxC

🌐 More on Aidan: www.aidanmccullen.com